Abandoning my Pro-life stance

Well, with all this change going on in the USSA, and seeing how this Friday is so changed from last Friday, I think it’s time that I change with the times, go with the flow, jump on the bandwagon and whatever else other cliché you’d like to fill in there.

For many many years I’ve been Pro-life. I’ve just never believed that one person has the right to kill another without repercussions, whether that person be 60, 30, 13, 3 or -.5. I’ve often wondered why the Pro-killer group was so anxious to kill babies, yet in the same breath toss a man in jail for kicking a dog. I just don’t get it. A man’s not a man unless he kicks his dog a few times a day.

But since the Roe v. Wade thing, the gimme-death-not-liberty group has tried to convince the American public that the baby inside a woman isn’t really a “person,” but just a blog of cells. I guess they forgot that for the past 10,000 years all societies have referred to pregnant women as “with child” and in other ways that reflect the fact there’s a life inside; we even call pregnant women “mommy.”

And, almost always the murder comes because the murdered child is unwanted by the birth female. Yes, I know that sometimes there are health complications when life and death is in the balance—I said “almost always.” Even in the case, or maybe especially in the case of rape, this is the case.

But since it is currently very legal to kill the unwanted unborn, I think with the new “changed” America, we should further expand Roe v. Wade to include the killing of all unwanted people. Wait, that’s probably too vague. Maybe it should be all unwanted and helpless people. Since we kill the unwanteds before birth, maybe we should look at aborting unwanted helpless people after birth and especially at the other end of life when people once again tend to be helpless. After all, nursing homes are filled to capacity in most places with old people that the families no longer are able or wish to care for. And since our economy is in such a terrible shape and the government is always worried about (and taking money from) Social Security, think of the money it would save not just the government, but families and businesses and insurance companies.

And, the abortion clinics—making money hand over fist and giving much of that to Planned Parenthood—could also take on the responsibility of aborting old people. They stand to make a killing (sorry, pun intended), at least for the first decade or so.

After that, they could move to people who are neither young nor old, but are equally helpless…more specifically, the mentally deficient. There would definitely need to be choice here, as some of those people are actually very loved. So it would just be the unloved ones.

And if you don’t get by now this entire post is tongue-in-cheek, don’t leave this page before reading that is indeed the case. When will we stop legalized murder?

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11 Comments

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11 responses to “Abandoning my Pro-life stance

  1. Sane One Here

    Finally someone sees the light!

    If my wife gets pregnant and we decide that we don’t want the responsibility of a child, we can have a pre-birth abortion. If we decide to have the child, but at sixteen years old he gets into an accident and totals my car, is failing out of high school because he spends all his time on his XBOX and runs up my long distance charges because his “girlfriend” is out of state, maybe I don’t want that kind of responsibility anymore. Maybe it’s time for what I’ve always referred to as a “post-birth abortion.” It can’t be any different, can it? Well, maybe “I” can’t decide that. My wife would have to. After all, it’s only a WOMAN’S choice as to who lives and who . . . is properly aborted according to the state laws. “Ve vant to zee your paperz.”

    In terms of the older people, perhaps it’s not that they should be aborted . . . no, we can send them on a journey to be renewed and reborn. RENEW! RENEW! RENEW!

    Or maybe I’ll just stick with my big three on abortion — rape, incest, and the life of the mother.

  2. Sane One Here

    Oh, in response to “When will we stop legalized murder”, I can guarantee it won’t be during the next four years . . .

  3. Dave Olbrich

    Don’t let subtlety, nuance and areas of grey get in the way of your dogma.

    If abortion is illegal, what should happen to women who have illegal abortions? What should happen to their families?

    Let’s say you get your way. How much more are you willing to pay? How much are you willing to make EVERYONE pay? How much bigger do you want the government to be? Can you conceive of what American would and could become if you got your way? Not some poly-anna, evangelical, “if we’re righteous, God will fix everything” viewpoint espoused by some (not necessarily you) … but actual, hard, real-life consequences.

    Read the book “Freakanomics.” It makes an iron clad case for the fact that the only important factor in the significant drop in crime over the last several decades is the reduction of unwanted children thanks to legalized abortion.

    This proposition that the world gets better without legalized abortion is short-sighted at best and egotistically tyrannical at worst. Inevitably it is the poor, uneducated and socially disenfranchised that pay the price. Ending abortion would perpetuate and intensify the cycle of poverty, instead of diminishing it.

    I have never met a single soul who is “pro-abortion.” Abortion is a traumatizing, soul-scaring tragedy and never desirable. It is a sin. It isn’t the responsibility of a modern civilized society to protect anyone’s soul. There are plenty of sins that aren’t illegal and shouldn’t be illegal.

    How many more police, prosecutors, prisons, prison guards and other governmental infrastructure are you comfortable paying for to achieve your righteousness? How much higher do you want to drive the crime rate?

    If you make abortion illegal, how do you plan to battle/alleviate the enormous problems that you’re going to cause? A small Jeffersonian government won’t be capable. The private sector will have no inherit profit motive to pitch in.

    Anecdotal evidence and personal experience has little usefulness here. Attempting to see the big picture is required.

    As a devote conservative, how deeply do you want to legislate the personal lives of people? This invites the creation of a bigger Big Brother, not a smaller one.

    What happens when this logic is taken to the next step? Should a mother who has a miscarriage be arrested? She had a living child in her care and the child died. What if she had careless disregard for her own health? Smoking? Drinking? Is that child-abuse? What if you can prove that her everyday behavior contributed to the miscarriage? Is that murder? How should that almost-Mom be punished?

    Taking dogmatic stands is easy. Actually solving the real problems of real people, showing them respect and protecting the greater good is much more difficult.

    Notice my complete lack of lame sarcasm, name-calling or attempted irony.

  4. BJ

    So Dave, you think that we shouldn’t do anything about innocent babies being killed. An innocent life taken away all because (in most cases…but not all) individuals were not responsible.

    If anyone is taking it too far…you are with the following questions.

    “What happens when this logic is taken to the next step? Should a mother who has a miscarriage be arrested? She had a living child in her care and the child died. What if she had careless disregard for her own health? Smoking? Drinking? Is that child-abuse? What if you can prove that her everyday behavior contributed to the miscarriage? Is that murder? How should that almost-Mom be punished?”

    Some of these questions are just out right sad but not abortion.

    Let me ask you a couple of questions.

    1. How would you like it if your wife decided to abort one of your children without your consent? For no other reason than she didn’t want the child.

    2. How would you like it if a daughter of yours (age 14) decided not to tell you she was expecting but told her counselor at school and this counselor took your 14 year old daughter to have an abortion because you as a parent do not have a right to know or have a say in the matter because all women no matter their age should have a right to choose?

    *Unlike your questions…these two questions currently do happen in our society today.

    I find it deeply saddening when someone attempts to make such a case of poor excuses to give someone a right to “kill” when all along if they (in most cases–not all) had only been responsible in the first place.

  5. Dave Olbrich

    I’ll be happy to confront your questions, with the expressed understanding that you confront mine.

    You are suddenly in charge of the world. You can immediately outlaw abortion.

    How do you propose to deal with the fallout?
    What should happen to women who have illegal abortions? You can’t legislate responsibility, you can only punish the lack of it after the fact. You can’t live in a nevernever land, you have to deal with people in all their wildly different permutations.

    You can’t live in the “50’s TV version of the past,” the panacea of the “good old days” that never really existed. (School violence in the 50s/60s was much much more frequent and less punished than it is today, but they used less lethal weapons.) The truth of day-to-day life is often very, very sad.

    I originally posed the questions and you had no answers. Haven’t you considered the consequences of your actions/positions?

    How would you deal out your justice? Who would pay and how much?

    I said specifically that anecdotal evidence and personal experience is of little use here and yet it is the only emotionally based evidence you lean on. But if you want to see some terrific anecdotal evidence watch this:

    Now for your questions.

    1. I would never force my wife to have a baby that she didn’t want. There that was easy. Would it be sad? Sure. Would it be tragic? Sure. But I have a lifelong relationship with my wife and I love her.

    2. I could write 5,000 words on this question, but I’ll try to keep it short. I have a daughter, she was 14 once. So this possibility was part of my world. If I’ve done my job as a loving and supportive father, this scenario doesn’t occur. PERIOD. If my daughter is expecting unexpectedly and feels that she cannot come to me then I’ve failed as a parent. PERIOD. Parental notification is a non-starter for me.

    From my point of view, parental notification only “protects” bad parents. Believe me, I have a LOT of experience with daughters of bad parents. There are far too many bad parents out there. Ones that do unthinkable and evil things to their children. Parents that throw their daughters out of the house for getting pregnant is the least of these crimes.

    Children are not to be “controlled” like lab rats. You can’t isolate them to protect them from the real world AND prepare them for the real world. You have to expose them to the real world so that when it is time, they are prepared with the “armor and weapons” to deal with the difficulties of adulthood responsibly and correctly.

    So to answer your question. I wouldn’t “like” it. It would make me sad. Sad for the trauma she went through, sad for the scars she’s going to have to carry the rest of her life, sad for my failure as a parent. I would tell her that I love her. I would nurture her. I would help her get healthy again, physically, spiritually and mentally.

    But I wouldn’t seek legislation or help from the government to guide my relationship with my daughter. Not all parents are going to react with any dependable level of maturity. As a good parent, I don’t need the government to insure notification … that is something only bad parents need … and in my opinion … bad parents cannot be trusted to act appropriately in the interest of their children.

    Now if you want the government to start providing parent “licensing,” that is a discussion we could have.

    Now, take a shot a my questions. The ones you posted to me were already things that I have considered in depth. I’ve already confronted them and my conscience is clear.

  6. Sane and loving it

    Sorry to be borderline graphic about this . . .

    But . . .

    If it’s a WOMAN’S CHOICE . . .

    A woman who knows she’s not financially, emotionally, or otherwise stable enough to have a child . . . SHOULD CHOOSE TO KEEP HER LEGS SHUT.

    How about responsibility overriding all else?

    Oh, wait. Why be responsible when you can just have an abortion?

  7. BJ

    Dave, I did answer your questions. You’ve just chosen to be blinded by “arguing just to be arguing”. My answer just wasn’t good enough for you.

    “Some of these questions are just out right sad but not abortion.”

    You mentioned “emotions”–when what I presented is factual.

    It is a fact and bottom line that babies/human beings are being killed/murdered.

  8. Dave,

    Somehow I don’t think Roland’s goal was to convince someone like you. If you can justify allowing others to kill someone so you can have a small government(*), then you’re off the radar of his intended audience.

    No offense meant, its just that I don’t think this is, ultimately, an intellectual issue.

    What convinced me of the rightness of Roland’s position was seeing pictures of aborted babies. No intellectual arguments there, just innocent blood.

    -Robert

    (*) Not that I agree with your argument of criminalizing abortion=bigger government. Big government is only needed when people are irresponsible. The goal is to change the culture of irresponsibility, and legalized abortion is just one symptom.

  9. ant'ny

    This is why I wouldn’t let my rhetoric students write about abortion–most people tend to believe what they believe and then dig in their heels. I can offer supportive ‘evidence’ for either side, both religious and scientific, but I’ll most likely never change your mind.

  10. Roland,

    I wanted to apologize if I implied that what you wrote wasn’t an intellectual attempt to speak on the issue of abortion … because it was.

    I was more speaking about those whose hearts are closed not responding to argument. There are plenty of people who are undecided or ill informed on this issue, and what you wrote is an excellent wake up call.

    Thanks for tackling it,

    -Robert

  11. BJ

    Ant’ny:

    I was one of those people who listen (previously Pro-Choice), read and listened some more. On top of being blessed to have two wonderful gifts from God (Brittany and Brett)–I am amazed at my previous thought process and the rational/reasons I gave for being pro-choice. They made absolutely no sense–I just wanted my way.

    BJ

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